Can you provide more information about the “200w 24V heater with a fan”? I’d like to see the wiring diagram for it.
I can’t answer these questions without more information about the Heater/Fan unit.
I couldn’t find the part on AliExpress (the image link information says that it came from there but I can’t find the same part). So, I’m assuming that both the fan and the heater are 24V devices and will be powered by a separate Mean Well 24V-360W DC power supply (based on your previous posts). I’m also assuming that you’ll use something like the N-Channel MOSFET board that I posted the link to previously.
Since you said that you have a Manta M5P, I’m going to suggest that you use the “RGB” (NeoPixel) ports for driving the N-Channel MOSFET board.
The circuit that I would recommend putting together would be:
This is using the 0-5V output of the RGB connector of the M5P to control the gate of the N-Channel MOSFET which will allow current flow through the Fan or Heater. There is a separate 24V/360W Power Supply that will be used specifically for the Fan and Heater and nothing else in the printer.
As always, grounding will be critical. Please make sure there is a single ground wire between the three Ground symbols at the bottom of the diagram.
I think that’s what you’re looking for. Comments/Questions?
1 Like
@mykepredko & @ray_boy, I can’t thank you enough guys.
So, if I undertand, I have to link ALL the GNDs from all the components together, even the GND from the 2 PSUs like a loop, right?.
Then,for the klipper configuration, like Ray_boy shared previously:
- “heater_pin” will be the “control” pin from the neopixel port
- “sensor pin” will be the thermistor
With this configuration example, how does the fan will be linked to the heater?
The Grounds should NEVER look like a loop - that’s known as a “Ground Loop” and is a very bad thing with big potential problems.
Reread my last post - there’s only one connection to each of the grounds.
The same way as the heater - it will use the other NeoPixel connector on the M5P.
The assumption here is that the fan is a 24V DC fan.
Okay, I was not sure about that. I’m really a beginner in electronics so forgive me if I ask maybe stupid questions…
Correct me if I’m wrong, sorry to bother you:
I don’t understand how to wire the heater to the mosfet ( there are Vin +&-, OUT +&- on the board).
The control pin from the motherboard goes to G on the mosfet and the signal to ground?
How to ground the mosfet and the ground pin from the neopixel? Can I use the spare ground ports of the psu?
I did a bit of digging and found this diagram for the module:
Does this help?
Your application wiring is as follows:
- “Input signal (PWM)+” goes to pin 2 of M5P - RGB Socket (see above)
- “GND” goes to pin 3 of M5P - RGB Socket (see above)
- “DC+” goes to the “V+” terminal of the Mean Well power supply
- “DC-” goes to the “V-” terminal of the Mean Well power supply. NOTE: This line is tied to “GND” so other than the GND line from pin 3 of the M5P - RGB Socket, there are no other connections between the Mean Well power supply “V-” and GND - this is taken care of for you in the module
- “OUT+” goes to the positive (red) wire of the Fan/Heater
- “OUT-” goes to the negative (black) wire of the Fan/Heater
Does this make sense?
Here’s a video that’s pretty good and not too long explaining how to wire things:
What mykepredko has outlined should work fine if you want to use a dedicated 24v power supply with the 24v PTC heater+built in fan.
1 Like
Thank you @mykepredko for all the diagrams and @ray_boy for the configuration example.
I think I’m good to give it a try asap.
One last thing is how to wire the heater’s fan on the other neopixel socket please?
Not using the 5v pin obviously, so signal pin for + and ground?
Or can I use a spare fan port, would be easier as it is already 24v +&- ?
No, don’t use a fan port because I’m not sure how the N-Channel MOSFETs used on this board would work with a voltage higher than 5V. There was a discussion on these boards previously and when I looked at the datasheet, I seem to recall that the Drains were limited to 5V - even if they aren’t the LED and biasing resistors on the board are designed for 5V.
Similarly, don’t use something like the IO pins in the BL Touch header - these are at 3.3V and, from the previous discussion, we discovered that the N-Channel MOSFETS on this board don’t work properly with anything less than 4.5V.
That’s why I recommend the NeoPixel connectors.
When wiring them; yes, you’re right you don’t need the +5V pin. You just need the control output and ground.
1 Like
Sir, thank you a lot for the time you spent explaining and searching. Means a lot to me as a beginner, I really am grateful for the knowledge you shared.
Now I’ll do my research to integrate the commands in my printer and slicer. I hope I will succeed to integrate my heater within the abs/asa profiles from orca slicer.
My final goal is to make an enclosed corexy printer with automatic heating chamber like a qidi x-max 3.
Thank you again.
1 Like
I’m pretty sure the PTC heater/fan combo you are looking at has the leads connected. That is, the PTC runs on 24V input and the fan runs also on the same 24V input (standard 24V 2 wire DC fan). You could separate the wires and run the heater and fan separately. But the fan will require 24V to get good airflow. 5V might not even be enough to start it and it certainly won’t operate on a 5V pwm signal.
You’ll need a 24V fan port or 24V heater port to control the fan separately. Alternatively just leave the heater and fan connected and the fan will operate when the heater is on. In that case it’s probably best to run the heater in watermark control mode and not PID.
1 Like
What about the watermark vs PID control, please? What’s the difference? So I should wire the fan to a normal fan port?
No. Follow what I put above for wiring.
PID is the algorithmic method for controlling temperature in 3D printers (and many other devices). You set three parameters that are used as coefficients for the current state (proportional), the history up to that point in time (integrated) and the current rate of change (differential). These will set a PWM cycle time that is optimal for maintaining a given temperature. PID is used where there are no mechanical parts that need to switch and will wear out quickly due to the rapid changes of the PWM.
A Watermark control algorithm is what’s used in a house for maintaining temperature. A set temperature is kept within a set temperature range called the “comfort zone” - in your home, if you set the thermostat to 20C, it will turn on the furnace when the temperature inside the house (really where the thermostat is) reaches 18C and turns it off when the temperature reaches 22C providing a “comfort zone” of four degrees. Watermark is primarily used in situations like a house where a furnace cannot turn on or off quickly or requires mechanical switching that will fail after a given number of cycles.
PID is the appropriate method for maintaining temperature in your chamber and Klipper has excellent tools for automatically determining the PID values.
I don’t think I answered this clearly; both the fan and the heater will be controlled using their own NeoPixel port and N-Channel MOSFET driver.
This will allow you to control both independently.
I would expect that the fan would be on basically continuously when a print was active but you may want to use a PWM to lower the fan speed if it is running too fast and the heater would controlled with the PID algorithm discussed above using a thermistor located somewhere in the chamber.
Does that make sense?
1 Like
Thank you for the explanation.
So heater has its own N channel mosfet and neopixel pin.
So does the fan: it’s own N channel mosfet and pin too.
For now, the most complicated will be the klipper config…
I know about M191.programming the fan, heater and PID will be a challenge for me.
I found this as a guideline: Chamber Heater - Printable Voron User Mods - Team FDM
but as He uses AC, it’s really not the same right ?
Yes, you will have two sets of controlling hardware, one for the heater and one for the fan.
The guideline you found is a great place to start - from the Klipper perspective, there’s no practical difference in operation to DC components to AC when using electronic switches.
In the example I shared, he uses watermark… Getting PID values for a ptc heater seems challenging, there’s no basic values anywhere as a starting point…
Have you done PID tuning in Klipper before for the extruder and heated bed.
As I understand it, you can perform the same process for PID as you do with them.
Or, once you get things wired and try the linked macro and things work okay then you can keep with that.
That’s what’s nice about software in a hardware system, you can try different things.
1 Like
PID calibration for the chamber doesn’t work well and isn’t worth the initial headache. Just use watermark to set the system up and if you find that watermark is not functioning well you can change over to PID and work on finding appropriate tuning coefficients. The chamber control time constant makes watermark OK to use.
You’ll find that where you place your chamber thermistor(s) will have a substantial impact on the reported temperature and the control system. Do you have a plan on where you are going to place the temp sensor(s)? Current reccomendation is to use at least 2 sensors at the Z level the toolhead and in a position where they don’t get direct airflow from a chamber fan.
1 Like