Acceleration settings are limited from the Slicer. Unsure what max accel extrusion is for and how to set it up correctly

Basic Information:

Printer Model: Anycubic Vyper
Slicer: OrcaSlicer

printer.cfg:

[printer]
kinematics: cartesian
max_velocity: 150
max_accel: 3200
max_accel_to_decel: 3200
max_z_velocity: 5
max_z_accel: 100

[input_shaper]
shaper_freq_x: 53.8
shaper_type_x: ei
shaper_freq_y: 40.2
shaper_type_y: mzv

Issue:

My Slicer caps my acceleration at 1250 while printing.

I know it comes from the Maximum acceleration for extruding. I could not find what is recommended for that setting or what it does. I used the resonance test in Klipper to get the maximum and optimal acceleration settings.

As shown above I set them up in Klipper as well. I also parsed them to the printer settings in my slicer for the maximum my printer should do. So far so good. When I now change the acceleration in the Speed tab to 2000 for Normal printing and to 1500 for Outerwalls I get an error telling me my acceleration is set higher than in the printer setting for extruding.
I’m unsure what to set the max acceleration for extruding or retracting at.
I think I do not understand properly the difference of the Max acceleration for X&Y and for extrusion & retraction.

What should I set these to and what should I set the Acceleration at the Speed tab at for best fast performing?

Link to pictures from the problems and settings described above:

Both those questions are based on your printer alone and will be different for every printer specifically, and more generally every printer made by whatever company (Creality, Prusa, Voron) and even more generally by type (Core XY, Cartesian, Delta etc)

To your other question though, some Slicers do M204 to try to limit the acceleration.

A trick on those slicers is usually to set your acceleration to 0 and it will default to the printer firmware and not try to overwrite it.

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Ok maybe my questions where not that clear.
I was not sure if klipper tells me it will handle set acceleration well enoth I should use this setting for every acceleration.

The misunderstanding on my part is totally on the slicer side because I could set up there a lot of different accelerations. (I do not understand the difference or why there is one between max accel x & y and extrution and retraction)
Extrusion and retraction handles, as far as I tested it, everything when it prints.
So for what do I need the max values for?
Max accel travel is by far the simplest one to understand. (but the hardest to change in OrcaSlicer)

Or would you recommend me to use only Klipper for regulating the accel values?

TL;DR: Use what Klipper gave you as a starting point, set your slicer acceleration to 0 to default to whats in your config file.

More detailed answer:

Honestly it’s generally a “trial and error” process.

The accelerations all come down to the basic idea of “how fast can it change direction?”

In that context, Z drives are usually the slowest because they have to lift the gantry and deal with the most weight.

Newtons second law: Force = mass x acceleration
or, solving for acceleration.
Acceleration = Force / mass.

So the more mass for the same given force, the less acceleration. Hence why Z drives tend to have a much lower acceleration

X and Y is dependent on the printer type but they’re usually much higher acceleration since they don’t have to deal with the weight.

Extruder doesn’t really deal with ANY weight (comparatively) so you’d THINK it would be super high acceleration. But in reality if you try to change the direction too fast it can gouge out a chunk of the relatively soft filament.

Edit: I forgot to add on the extruder part.
There can be a difference in acceleration between extrusion and retraction because when you’re extruding you’re forcing molten filament through a smaller space (Nozzle diameter is usually .4mm while filament diameter is 1.75mm).

So there is going to be resistance when extruding, so you need a steady amount of force to shove the filament through the nozzle. Compared to when your extracting when you’re pulling the filament out the way it came in and there is essentially no resistance.

So extruding acceleration will be quite a bit slower than retraction. You can only extrude so fast (based on a ton of factors), but you can retract very quickly.


Physics lesson aside, Now you have a decent idea of what roughly makes sense (at least in general). What does that mean for your printer?

The usual way to go about it is, if everything is printing okay now, you can bump up the acceleration in increments until your stepper motors start skipping steps (you’ll usually hear it).

The only issue with that method is, it doesn’t really give you an idea if your steppers can SUSTAIN that acceleration across all prints.

In other words, you find an acceleration and move your gantry/bed/whatever around a lot and everything seems fine. But then you try to print something that has a lot of short, sharp, zig zag turns that really stress the acceleration and your printer might not be able to keep up.

So usually once you find an “upper limit” where your steppers start skipping, you set your max acceleration to something like 80% of that (Max Acceleration * .8)

Caveat: This is very general advice. As with anything everyone has a different opinion on how to go about it. Others might say “That’s too conservative! You can run at 95% of your acceleration and be fine!” and another person will say “80%??? You’ll tear up your printer. You should run it at 60% of max”

Some people will say start high and then move your acceleration down until it stops skipping steps.

You can ask 10 different people what the acceleration settings are for your printer and get 12 different answers.

Hence why it’s really a “Trial and error” process based on YOUR printer. There is no “right” answer.

Biggest picture: Is your printer printing? Do the prints look good? Are you happy with it? When you get to that point, Don’t fix what isn’t broken, or more aptly, don’t break what works right.

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Thanks for the really detailed answer.
I did a lot of tryl and error the past days and it seams to me that when I bump up the acceleration and the speed the extruder is my bottle neck right now.
At 3500 mm/s^2 and 120mm/s it starts to skip on some parts in the normal banchy near the front and near the doors.

If I lower the acceleration, it will still print longer parts fast but does not under extrude anyone in these areas.

So i’m in this case not sure if higher print speed would be preferred over higher acceleration.
Because the high acceleration, as you sad in sharp corners, seems to lead to short clogs in the extruder. (underextrution) I assume because of the high acceleration and print speed the extrution gear needs to get a lot faster and so on exceeds the speed it should try to push the filament around.

All that really depends on your hot end. If your hot end can’t melt the filament fast enough then you’re right, the extruder will just grind away at the filament.

For tuning that you’re looking for your “max volumetric flow rate”

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