TMC5160 - Classic Constant Off Time Chopper with fast decay time

Hiya, can’t seem to find a way to contact you directly and I wanted to reach out because you seem like you’ve also went down the huge rabbit hole of the 2mm vfa’s. Put in over 100 hours into it with still little results or answers. I’m about to start on this part of it myself now , tmc chopper tuning? I think that’s what it’d be called.

You seem like you’ve done a good bit of work on this, so I’d like if you could share some of your knowledge. Have you found that the tmc tuning helped? Any specific parameters affect it a significant amount? Have you done anything else that helped? Have you got the answers? The solutions? :sob::rofl: I doubt you have the answers lmao, I wish someone did. Been through dozens of forum posts and there seem to be none.

Any help and advice would be greatly massively appreciated!

Hello @Mattie !

Whom? The OP or the LP?

Also:

And: It’s Christmas time. Must supporters join their families. (You just joined 2 hours before this post)

If you have a issue, it’s recommended to open a new thread with all requested information.

Hiya yeah I was referring to the op , lifeofbrian. Yeah it’s Christmas of course I’m not forcing them to reply right now :rofl: they can reply whenever they have time.

I’m not necessarily interested in opening a new topic, but wanted to speak to lifeofbrian directly. It’s a very niche topic and most posts I’ve seen about this get very basic/wrong advice.

With a @ in front of the name, it is more obvious. :wink:

Sharing with @LifeOfBrian.

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Once you lost your newbie status you should be able to PM other users here.
Merry christmas to all here in this post! :santa:t2::christmas_tree:

There are different root causes for VFAs, mostly caused by motor resonances.
Sometimes swapping 1.8° motors against 0.9° can help, sometimes just a different vendor might help.
Chopper tuning can help too.
I could not resolve the issue on my NoName but noticed it is speed related.
So when printing faster the issue is almost gone until printing too fast…
For Klipper there are some Plugins available for changing the chopper parameters.
But you could also use an oscilloscope and examine the current graph of the stepper drivers.
As the TMC stepper drivers only store 1/4 of a sine wave in their MSLUT there are always some artifacts between two of the sine wave quadrants. This can cause VFAs too.

It is a very complex topic but I think finding the right speed that causes the least amount of motor resonances is the best way here.
You might want to google for Shake&Tune here.

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Hiya!
Thank you for the long and detailed reply, I really appreciate it.
I’ve upgraded to 0.9 steppers a while back, but they don’t do much for the 2mm vfa’s , just the shorter ones that are the length of a step.
I’ve tried the tmc autotune, going to try chopper resonance tuning after I finish having a go at messing with the values myself.
The tool you linked seems really handy, I’ll definitely look into it thank you for that!

Have probably one last question for you, you haven’t mentioned the gt2 belts as being the cause/suspect and that theory is pretty prevalent, I’d say even more popular than the motors being the issue, so Ive a feeling you don’t think they are actually the cause. Why do you think the belts aren’t the issue?

I’m leaning towards it being the motors, as many bandaid fixes ive seen from people assuming the belts are the issues(like electrical tape on the belt/pulley), that actually did manage to help the vfa’s, would just dampen the artefacts coming from the motor. But stealthchop enabled/disabled and chopper settings had an effect the vfa’s ,and I don’t think they would if the belts were the cause.

3 post limit for new users so I had to edit this one oop

I’ve done the same with the belts, ran the flat side on the idler, even went as far as sanding the teeth down at some point. Got wider pulleys and idlers to rule out the theory of the belt rubbing on the sides aswell. No noticeable difference in any of those. Besides I think partially sanding the teeth down on the whole belt? I know the electrical tape/teflon tape method did help aswell, also i remember greasing the belt having a positive impact. But those would have their own issues and they just mask/dampen the problem instead of fixing it.

About the less and more belt tension thing, I’d agree somewhat, that less tension helps the 2mm vfa’s , and more tension might worsen the motor vfa’s , but they’re 2 different vfa’s, they’re different in length , the motor vfa’s are a good bit shorter , dependent on the length of the step (1.8° Vs 0.9°) . Less tension in the belt could just dampen the 2mm type of vfa from the motor, or reduce belt vfa, wherever it actually originates from.

Sidenote ,just yesterday , had to swap to a new roll of filament to continue printing vfa test prints, and the same brand and colour gave my whole set of 10 different speeds vfa’s, instead of 2 speeds that were affected previously, swapped to a different roll again because wtf, that’s the same brand and colour, and half my speeds were affected, take from this what you want lmao, I’ve no clue what it means.

Anyhow farewell , thank you very much for the replies! They’re really appreciated! Helpful to absorb extra knowledge and especially the shake&tune tool you shared with me, I’ll be having a go at that soon enough. Thank you!

Yeah actually I thought you already ruled out the belts causing your issues. :smiley:
Otherwise belts always should be kept in such a discussion.
When I had time testing all this I even routed my belts so that the toothed side only touches the motor pulleys and otherwise run on the flat side.
This did not change anything in my case.
Later I read that with less belt tension VFAs are more likely to be caused by the belts and with high(er) tension it drifts towards the motor resonances…
I did not verify that to be honest.

But if I remember correctly StealthChop and SpreadCycle had an effect.
And of course the printing speed.
But less the motor current.

But as I already wrote the most improvement came with using Shake&Tune.
There is another project dealing with the conf registers that aims an reducing motor resonances too. If I’m right it uses an accelerometer to measure the resonances but I did not try that yet.