Extrusion setting when running pressure advance cube

Hello,

I’m sorry for the mundane question, but it doesn’t cover this anywhere. My slicer of choice is Cura.
I’m setting up pressure advance, so download the box from the Klipper website and set the parameters as stated. With a Bowden setup should I leave Retraction enabled in the slicer or turn it off? Currently I’ve got the pressure advance test running but retraction was on and is set at 5.0 (Which has been perfect for this Bowden setup) I’m thinking I should have switched it off though? If someone could advise if I use pressure advance and Cura’s retraction together, or turn it off in Cura I would be grateful.

Thanks

It should be fine either way. The retraction should only affect the corner where the Z seam is, and retraction or no, you should disregard the Z-seam corner when analyzing the printed pressure advance tower.

Hello,

Thanks for the response. But I’m not sure it is fine either way. It’s either designed to be used with or without. Either way doesn’t help? As that’s two completely different approaches. I either use retraction based on the Cura engine. Or use Klippers implementation?

I suggest you experiment and use whatever settings work best for you.

  • Pressure Advance and Retraction are not directly related
  • Pressure Advance and Retraction are not mutually exclusive
  • Carefully tuned PA will allow you to significantly reduce Retraction since the residual pressure in the nozzle is eliminated by PA already
  • Retraction in the Slicer or “Firmware Retraction” in Klipper exactly work the same

Edit:
If we are only talking about the PA Test, then @theophile has already given you the correct advice. With or w/o retraction:

Thanks again. Hopefully someone can advise on the original question. I appreciate your suggestion.

If anyone can give a definitive answer that would be great. Thanks

Then maybe you should rephrase your question.

Again: It does not matter if you run this PA tuning test with or without Retraction as the two have nothing to do with each other. Just disregard the seam side when assessing the test results. Not sure what kind of insight you are expecting

To clarify for you. This is with regards to the two systems and how they interact.

My expectations as you were kind enough to ask:

A definitive answer when running pressure advance in firmware, not just relating to testing. Does it negate the need for ‘enable retraction’ and it’s relating parts in Cura 5+ (or any specific relating parts)

Pressure advance is directly related to retraction. The documentation goes into great detail to explain as much. Also it’s origins with diagrams and plenty of information on the subject. But mutual relativity isn’t helpful or relevant. So not in the documentation.

Insight expected: In 3D printing daily, with Klipper on your daily drivers, using Cura version 5 or above. Could anyone who uses this configuration advise if they turn off ‘enable retraction’ within their slicer relying on PA in Klipper to manage the function. With the outcome; once tuned correctly to eliminate oozing where possible and produce share corners, without bulging at higher acceleration than they produced controlling it from within Cura, with better results.

Thanks again for your time.

Per the documentation:

Once pressure advance is tuned in Klipper, it may still be useful to configure a small retract value in the slicer (eg, 0.75mm) and to utilize the slicer’s “wipe on retract option” if available. These slicer settings may help counteract ooze caused by filament cohesion (filament pulled out of the nozzle due to the stickiness of the plastic). It is recommended to disable the slicer’s “z-lift on retract” option.

No one can give you a definitive answer to whether you need to enable/disable retraction after tuning PA because there are so many different variables that can affect it. A bowden system is more likely to need retraction than a direct-drive system. Even on the same machine and otherwise same slicer settings, you might find different optimal retraction settings for each filament. So if you want to find out what produces the best results for you, you’re going to need to test and see.

I’m not even sure if you’re trying to be helpful. But I got a completely different response on discord. Of course they can’t give a definite answer about someone else’s machine. But they may be able to apply their experience to the Cura 5 / PA advance question and advise based on that prior experience. Which thankfully they have done. Not just….try and see.

I have no idea why you’re just quoting the documentation as if someone would blindly guess without research.

There is actually a fairly common quirk with Cura 5 - not in the documentation. I appreciate the people on discord. Question answered

Anyway. Sorted via Klipper discord.

Would you share the solution?

Can you share the solution that discord found. My issue is that after applying PA my extruder cant keep up. I think my old retraction settings are interfering. Should we just disable it?

I’m not sure if your question is related to the original topic here but to make some general statements:

  1. PA and retraction are are only very loosely related. A properly tuned PA allows to significantly reduce the retraction length while still avoiding oozing. To my experience it does not allow to turn it off completely
  2. The main focus of PA is to equalize pressure effects in the nozzle that result from accelerations (positive or negative)
    • A positive acceleration (speeding up) tend to lead to “starvation” of the extruded filament
    • A negative acceleration (breaking) tend to lead to “bulging” of the extruded filament
    • PA tries to mitigate both above by additional extruder movements
  3. The equalization as described under 2. leads to additional stress for the extruder. The higher the PA value, the higher the stress.
    • Bowden extruders typically require PA values a magnitude higher than direct extruders
    • Depending on the capability / type / quality an extruder might “give up” sooner or later. Typically, values beyond 1.0 are not considered “healthy” anymore but it very much depends on the overall quality of the extrusion system