Having built a custom version of Marlin and Octoprint using VS Code and PlatformIO and now trying to do the same approximate ground up scratch build of Klipper and all it’s various component parts, I couldn’t disagree more.
The primary reason I disagree is (at least for me) that Marlin has very good good notes all through the code, the code is well ordered, and it does a good job in the notes of telling you, for this type/brand of printer do or do not do xyz
With Klipper, you have the code and there is very little in the way of inline notes so I find myself flipping back and forth between the printer.cfg code in VS Code and the documentation in my browser. All the flipping back and forth is me trying to figure out if some block of code applies to my physical/mechanical configuration.
Documentation right from jump makes a statement about “this is based on assumption you are using the Octoprint interface” then when you download the code it’s MainsailOS.
I set about to install Klipper/MainsailOS because the consensus opinion in 3D Printer land is that it is better than Marlin and I have no reason to dispute that. But better doesn’t mean it is easier for a person who has only a rudimentary understanding of programming.
What do you mean “ground up scratch build of Klipper and all it’s various component parts”?
I’m beginning to think that you’re looking for reasons to not like Klipper…
Huh? Why would you edit your printer.cfg file in VSC when you can do it with the editor built into Mainsail?
Along with that, why wouldn’t you look for a base printer.cfg for your main controller board and start from there? You’re complaining that there isn’t any inline guide but most pre-configured printer.cfg files do have some inline instructions with most of the information required to customize the file for your system.
I’m not sure if you are referring to yourself in this statement.
Regardless, your approach to Klipper seems to be out of sync with 99% of new users.
Most people, with a little bit of reading, approach Klipper using the process:
Learn that they need a host system with a Raspberry Pi being what is most commonly referenced.
Follow the instructions to image the Raspberry Pi either with the MainsailOS or with a lite version of the rPi OS and load KIAUH.
If you’re working with the lite version of rPi OS and KIAUH, you install Klipper, Moonraker and Mainsail using KIAUH.
You build the Klipper firmware using the parameters set out for your main controller board. Then you burn in the new firmware using the board manufacturer’s instructions.
You select a predefined printer.cfg that either exactly matches your printer/main controller board and use that or take a predefined one that is for your main controller board and modify it for your specific needs. Normally this comes down to fairly simple things like defining your Z axis end stop switch for BL Touch or something similiar.
You test the operation of the board, maybe work up a default mesh, do automatic PIDs of your extruder and heated bed and…
You start printing.
As I said above, it seems like you’re looking for reasons to not like Klipper and are justifying it by going about it in the most difficult way possible.
I made a statement that I think Klipper is harder to get up and running on an E3P with the garbage Creality firmware. I stand by that.
The need to use KIAUH bolsters my argument, not yours.
A better programmer than me, essentially agreed with me, that installing Klipper is a challenge so he or she or they built a dedicated installer to help all those folks who are just like me. The 1%. Folks who have no help, confronted with documentation that is 2 generations of Raspberry Pi out of date, and people who want to fight.
Nothing about KIAUH in the Klipper documentation but it is suggested I Start by installing OctoPi
I’m looking forward to what your acquaintance, the “better programmer”, comes up with although I’m guessing they have to first decide on how they self identify.
I’m not a programmer (even though I have dabbled in QML for my UB Touch phone) but I just installed MainsailOS from the Pi Imager and had a working Voron 0 in just over 90 mins*, including finding out that I needed to convince Systemd to remove modemmanager and install uhub. The important thing is to read Klipper docs BEFORE you start.
*Obviously I spent several weeks sliding in all those little nut holders and flipping my soldering iron from solder tip to hot melt fastner tip and back but once it looked safe and all the mechs moved smoothly, I just looked for other users experiences, read the docs and followed the setup.
At no point did I even look at KIAUH, in fact I was blithely unaware of it until after I had a working system. I still haven’t found a need for it.
Being doing a lot of tweaking since and playing with changing neopixel colours to give status but it worked quite happily without the fancy bits.
In regards to “I’m not a programmer…”
One can speak Spanish and not be a Spaniard.
I’d suggest, based on how long you took to bolt up the machine, based on your nuts issue, that you buy 2 and preferably 3 electric screwdrivers that you can set the torque on so you dont pull out the threads on the aluminum parts.
The documentation is way out of date. That is irrefutable. When the docs make a reference to a Pi2 you are out of date. Adding a snippet of text “(or later)” to the text isn’t an update. Pi2 is not even recommended by the Raspberry Pi organization anymore. You take a cruise by their website, their comment is “Yeah we still make them but we recommend you don’t use one.”
Now Creality has their Klipper based Sonic Pad that someone here said was an old hacked up, stripped down version of Klipper in a post that was rightfully negative towards Creality.
On top of that there is BIQU/BTT with their Pad 7 which is based on Klipper also.
And then there is KIAUH. KIAUH is an attempt to remove the complexity of a straight klipper install.
Those Klipper based micro-computers along with KIAUH are testament to the complexity of installing klipper.
The fact that MainsailOS in the Raspberry Pi Installer attempts to do the work for you also speaks to Klippers complexity.
Complexity is not necessarily a bad thing. Nowhere have I said Klipper is bad. I said it is harder than Marlin.
If I thought Klipper was bad why would I waste my time on it.
Maybe volunteer to update and organize the Klipper documentation to reflect Pi4’s and now Pi5’s that are the current technology
You have 2 companies, Creality and BTT, that see a way to create a profit stream off of Klippers complexity, KIAUH and MainsailOS being sort of the freeware version to dodge Klippers complexity, that should be enough of an argument as relates to complexity but you be you.
Instead of distributing good advice, what about stepping up and contributing? It is a free project in the sense of:
free of charge
free to modify
free to contribute
Such projects typically do not evolve with people just demanding this and that, knowing everything better, sharing good advices and when it comes to contributing or doing some solid work then they disappear.
If I knew even a bare minimum about Klipper your comments might be valid. But I don’t.
It does seem like everyone who has been sniping at me has way more knowledge than I do so maybe direct some comments at the snipers. My skill is in running turbine generators and high pressure boilers so I can help with that chapter.
First Quarter 2024 is effectively over.
As for MainsailOS, it will become one of the recommended options in the official Klipper documentation. It’s been discussed among the developers as a priority for 2024 to update the install documents to match the options available now. When that documentation was originally written, Octoprint was the only option.
I have a printer.cfg file waiting in the wings but it can’t be tested until I redo all this garbage Creality wiring that printer came with.
So in that respect I’m not just sitting on my hands waiting for someone to come do it for me. That isn’t how I do things because you don’t learn the nuts and bolts of how the software interacts with the machine.
Than printer.cfg file ran in that it would launch in as much as it wouldn’t immediately fault off-line when I started up, but I would go into what I would call a “Locked Rotor” state where I’d see all the motors twitch then lock down.
I live in sunny South Carolina and there is no 3D Printing community where I am so no local resource/experience available to tap.
Creating documentation sucks, so I understand why it keeps getting kicked down the road. It is a necessary evil unfortunately.
I also think there is a basic misunderstanding of the state of at least a Creality E3P as far as out of the box runnability.
That is a myth that they are pre-configured with Marlin and are plug and play. They might be in 2023 but when I bought my E3P it was burn an .stl file to a micro-SD Card, spin the knob, push the knob to drill down to the PRINT command on a 2" x 4" screen and cross your fingers so I pretty promptly went down the path of Octoprint/Marlin which was a lightyears improvement over whatever it was called that shipped in the cardboard box from China.
First of all, I don’t really understand your reply.
Second, I guess you got a problem running Klipper on your printer and the printer doesn’t print what you want?
Why don’t you start a fresh thread explaining your problems?
Which printer do you use?
Please, make sure you attach your latest klippy.log!
Way back the OP said they were struggling to install Klipper.
I said it doesn’t help that the documentation is significantly out of date, which motivated some sniping.
Currently there are 3 semi-official ways of getting klipper onto a printer fwiw. That was the genesis of my comment.
My printer is an E3P which is currently down until I make a new wiring harness. After harness next is to pull out my chop saw to make a dual purpose spool holder and ribbon cable guide for Sprite Pro.
The consensus among (MainsailOS) YouTube Influencers seems to be to pick what printer.cfg file best matches an individuals particular physical configuration. Do an install using one of the 3 semi-official installation methods and work your way through the faults one at a time and clear the faults. I chose the MainsailOS option.
My mechanical/electrical configuration is a Creality E3P 4.2.7 board, Dual Z (invisible to Klipper), BL-Touch, Sprite Pro extruder, filament break/runout switch.
I have some 1,2,3 Blocks to get the E3P X-axis mechanically square once I complete the 2020 modifications to top of the existing frame.
Had a granite countertop person cut me a 1" thick slab of granite as deck for printer to stand on. They always have scrap they need to get rid of so they’ll generally cut you a good deal. Granite is very stable with virtually no expansion or contraction.
I am at the point where I have cleared the various faults but when I launch the Mainsail frontend all 4 stepper motors lock up, hence the locked rotor comment.
Once I complete the harness and top end work I’ll tackle software installation again.
I don’t know how Mr. O’Connor came to choose $3.00 for a contribution and locked it at that value but it was my intent to give a little more than 3 bucks a month.
It might be better to put a floor value of $3.00 but allow people to give more if they want. It’s a lot of work (and pressure) to maintain and improve a product like Klipper or really any of these open source projects.
I feel your frustration with it man, just hang in there. I have a Tronxy X5Sa plus, and I was lucky that someone provided a easy to follow roadmap to flash klipper on the thing; and i haven’t looked back. I’m currently working on replacing the stock board/pi combo with a M8P/CB1 combo for this otherwise stock tronxy. Its a learning curve (and yes, I made the mistake of editing backup the the printer.cfg file when i first started).
In my office, I also have the bones of a P802MA, and a anycubic kossel linear plus; haven’t touched them in years, because i hate configuring marlin… fine tuning it is rough… change this setting, recompile firmware, flash it, that didn’t work, so rinse and repeat…Klipper to me is closer to changing a setting in BIOS on a PC than marlin was … I don’t have to continually flash stuff, and hope I don’t wear out the flash card slot on the card. You just change this setting, reboot, and see if it works. Eventually - I’ll get around to getting klipper on those printers.
Can it be frustrating, yes… I’m having my own struggles with it… but its far better than marlin, IMHO; when it comes to configuration and flexibility.
I’m a tinkerer though… I cant leave stuff alone. If I wanted a printer that was just “push button - go”, I’d get a Bambu. I’ll be honest… I’d end up tinkering with that too.
