Makerbase Robin Nano 3.1 won't flash

Sineos

43m

DUMP_TMC stepper_y
========== Write-only registers ==========
SLAVECONF:  00000200 senddelay=2
IHOLD_IRUN: 00081919 ihold=25 irun=25 iholddelay=8
TPOWERDOWN: 00000014 tpowerdown=20
SGTHRS:     00000000
========== Queried registers ==========
GCONF:      000001c4 en_spreadcycle=1 pdn_disable=1 mstep_reg_select=1 multistep_filt=1
GSTAT:      00000000
IFCNT:      0000004e ifcnt=78
OTP_READ:   00000010 otp_fclktrim=16
IOIN:       21000040 pdn_uart=1 version=0x21
FACTORY_CONF: 00000010 fclktrim=16
TSTEP:      000fffff tstep=1048575
MSCNT:      00000008 mscnt=8
MSCURACT:   00f7000c cur_a=12 cur_b=247
CHOPCONF:   34030053 toff=3 hstrt=5 tbl=2 vsense=1 mres=4(16usteps) intpol=1 dedge=1
DRV_STATUS: 80190080 olb=1(OpenLoad_B!) cs_actual=25 stst=1
PWMCONF:    c80d0e24 pwm_ofs=36 pwm_grad=14 pwm_freq=1 pwm_autoscale=1 pwm_autograd=1 pwm_reg=8 pwm_lim=12
PWM_SCALE:  0000001d pwm_scale_sum=29
PWM_AUTO:   000e0024 pwm_ofs_auto=36 pwm_grad_auto=14
SG_RESULT:  00000002 sg_result=2

This is your output of DUMP_TMC STEPPER=stepper_y
DRV_STATUS: 80190080 olb=1(OpenLoad_B!) cs_actual=25 stst=1 shows that the TMC is not happy.
Since you verified that it is not the TMC itself, then we likely have an issue with the stepper. In my 3D printing career I have not had a dead stepper but quite some wiring issue.

Check the wiring again, especially on the boards side. Use a fine pliers to gently pull on each cable individually. Inspect the entire harness etc. If it does not help, try exchanging the stepper

That will take a while, and since this is Saturday, getting late here, take the rest of the weekend off, I’ll get the board out and look the solder over on the bottom with a very strong lens, The cable looks good but I’ve seen bad ribbons broke in the middle before, but that one I found by ringing it, 1 wire at a time over 40 wires, it didn’t conduct, and zero visible damage at the actual break. This one does, both coils are 2.7 to 2.8 ohms, as close as a cheap DVM can measure them from the back of the connector. And that is within 20% of what another motor just like it would measure. This would mean there are 2 different breaks in two different traces, but the same signal name. I wonder what the chances of that are? Wire I have, connectors in that exact style, no.

I should have something by noon my time Monday.

Thank You, take care and stay well

As you know, I did all that, so I changed the board for another new one
today. It came with Marlin-2.1.3, but acted essentilly the same. Once
the corexy was subtracted, so I did as you’ve suggested, powered down
and pulled the cable, plugging it into a motor of about the same length
removed from a tronxy. It moved normal, was rinse repeat with a creality
42mm long, same story. Motor now powers up, stays powered up. Problem
solved. I’m debating with myself, cuz if I have to take it all apart to
replace that motor, its a lot of work that may take all of tomorrows
daylight cuz I’ll change cables too. I have a box of the new 42mm long
stepper/servo’s I’ll see about a shutdown if they lose home because they
have an alm output that can shut down LinuxCNC in about a millisecond,
I’m already using 4 in nema 23 size in the garage, And have put on on
the Ender-5-plus if I ever get it finished.

So you were right, it is that motor, and I’m an id10t.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.

Heureka! Good things come to those who wait (or check their stepper motors) :+1:

Personally I would advise against using Nema 23 in 3D printers

  • To my knowledge, those who tried reverted back
  • Not needed / no benefit for regular consumer printers of relatively small size. What do you want to do with the additional torque? Wrap the print head 3 times around the frame in case of a crash? CNC is a different story, there you need the torque
  • Higher inertia thus not really fit for the small and quick movements during 3D printing.

Sineos

4h

Heureka! Good things come to those who wait (or check their stepper motors) :+1:

Personally I would advise against using Nema 23 in 3D printers

  • To my knowledge, those who tried reverted back
  • Not needed / no benefit for regular consumer printers of relatively small size. What do you want to do with the additional torque? Wrap the print head 3 times around the frame in case of a crash? CNC is a different story, there you need the torque
  • Higher inertia thus not really fit for the small and quick movements during 3D printing.

That has already crossed my mind. But closed loop in nema-17’s leaves us so far with one choice, and it isn’t as stable as it should be, I have 3 of those and its relatively easy to get them to a buzzing condition. So I have 6 of the longer .92nm motors coming from amazon for about $75. If they won’t run fast enough on 24 volts, I have boxes of 50 volt capable drivers to get the speed back. I’m not married to tmc2209’s, or even the outrageously priced ($24/copy) fystetc QVH5160’s I could plug into an octopus-pro. There’s room for a 48 volt supply and a pair of DM542’s in the bottom of that printer, and it has been my experience the speed goes up faster than the voltage. 28 volts on an early mill just barely got me 8mm/sec,
39 volts on the same motor/driver on the next machine got me almost 40mm/s.

I’m looking for ways to reduce the weight the Y motor has to throw around on my ender 5 +. That includes moving
the x home switch off the x bar which will be CF carrying a linear rail when I get the ability to print parts back. Its lost Y home lots of times but x only once in 2 years. The nema-23 is already mounted & driving the rear axle, now a 25mm OD CF tube, at 1/1, but will require multiplying the Y count by 1.5 as that’s a 1.2 degree motor. Rotor inertia might be a problem, OTOH a pulley pair to slow the bigger motor is only a week away. That also means homing is two LOC, y first, unless g28 can reverse the xyz order.

So when the longer (60mm core) motors get here, I’ll hide a 650 watt 48 volt supply set for 45 volts and a pair of DM542’s in the bottom, and klipper will never know they are there. Remove the tmc2209’s from printer.cfg and use the nano’s en,step/dir right from the headers on the nano.

One question about that. In LCNC’s typical break-outs, we run a 5 volt buss to the + end of the drivers input opto’s, and assume the active state is low. Since that is likely a direct connection to the stm407 on the nano, is the low state capable of sinking more current than the high state can source? The drivers on the typical cnc setup are ttl and can sink lots more current than they can source. In that event, can I break the ground and connect that to a 5 volt line like we do in LCNC?

That’s a big enough wall of test for one message.

Take care and stay well, Sinoes

Obviously I’ve not played with any of these FPGA’s now in everything. This tech is lots newer than I am. ;o)>

Then I cabbage a pair of 60mm core nema-17’s off a couple 50/1 harmonic drives I made a couple years ago. Spend 3 + hours changing them, and find they are at least 15mm too long, and the base hits the crossbar supporting the Z bearings on the sp-5. The only shorter than that is some dual shafted, like the ender 5 uses for its puny Y, they might clear by a mm… Murphy is determined to screw this old man over at every turn. Later, after I change them again.

My opinion is quite simple:

  • None of these options / solutions will bring you any added value to the printer types (SP-5, Ender etc) we are discussing here:
    • The frames are too weak
    • The 6mm belts are too small
    • The quality of the linear components is too bad
  • You will not turn a Fiat 500 into a Ferrari, just because you mount the Ferraris exhaust on the Fiat
  • Closed loop steppers (in my opinion) is also an overrated hype since on a proper system, lost steps are rarely occurring in 3D printing operations. At least I am not the type, who will manually throw off his printer’s head to delightfully watch it returning to its position. Not to mention that Klipper itself has no support for closed loop steppers
  • The only thing you will realize is a lot of additional problems and incompatibilities

Sorry, I completely do not understand what you are referring to:

  • The TMC drivers basically have two sides:
    • One logic side which is doing the sine wave calculations, stepping etc. This side either runs in 5V or 3.3V and has near to no requirements in terms of power etc
    • The actual power stage (bus voltage), which runs between 12V and 60V (depending on the TMC type) that actually “drives” the stepper. The higher this bus voltage the faster the stepper will arrive at its nominal winding current and thus at its nominal torque value (at the cost of more vibration / shocks that are sent through the entire system, which needs to be compensated in a very stiff frame and high quality linear components)

So, this HV drivers will allow for faster speeds at the rated torque. It is quite questionable if I need this in a low-end consumer printer, which system is not at all able to deal with the resulting forces.

Again, CNCs are a whole different story and should not / cannot be compared to 3D printing requirements.

If I were you, I’d rather concentrate on getting your printers up and running in their more or less regular configuration and, maybe at one stage, move to a system that is more capable and were the entire setup and quality of components allow for faster speeds and more importantly higher accelerations.
But hey, they are your printers, so have fun but please wait for my Mars vacation.

Short answer is no. The maximum voltage rating for the STM32F407 is 3.6V. Rather than asking that question here, you should be reading the part’s datasheet: https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/datasheet/ef/92/76/6d/bb/c2/4f/f7/DM00037051.pdf

If I can echo @Sineos sage advice, just get your printers working in a typical configuration with traditionally used 3D printer electrical components.

At the risk of being rude, it doesn’t come across like you really understand what you’re doing and you’re adding very high energy components from a variety of sources, known and unknown, to what is a small consumer product that has no safety certifications. A 650W, 48V power supply is in the range of what an arc welder’s power supply produces. If you insist on following you current plan, could you get somebody who is competent and familiar with these systems and wiring to look over your work?

I’d really hate to hear that you hurt yourself or caused a fire.

[mykepredko] mykepredko https://klipper.discourse.group/u/mykepredko
January 16

gene1934:

One question about that. In LCNC’s typical break-outs, we run a 5
volt buss to the + end of the drivers input opto’s, and assume the
active state is low. Since that is likely a direct connection to the
stm407 on the nano, is the low state capable of sinking more current
than the high state can source? The drivers on the typical cnc setup
are ttl and can sink lots more current than they can source. In that
event, can I break the ground and connect that to a 5 volt line like
we do in LCNC?

Short answer is no. The maximum voltage rating for the STM32F407 is
3.6V. Rather than asking that question here, you should be reading the
part’s datasheet:
https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/datasheet/ef/92/76/6d/bb/c2/4f/f7/DM00037051.pdf https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/datasheet/ef/92/76/6d/bb/c2/4f/f7/DM00037051.pdf

If I can echo @Sineos https://klipper.discourse.group/u/sineos sage
advice, just get your printers working in a typical configuration with
traditionally used 3D printer electrical components.

how many variations of a 6 pin motor socket are there? with a nearly
identical set of motors from a tronxy-400-pro in it, tmc is reporting a
shorted A winding in the logs. TwoTrees OEM cable.

At the risk of being rude, it doesn’t come across like you really
understand what you’re doing and you’re adding very high energy
components from a variety of sources, known and unknown, to what is a
small consumer product that has no safety certifications. A 650W, 48V
power supply is in the range of what an arc welder’s power supply
produces. If you insist on following you current plan, could you get
somebody who is competent and familiar with these systems and wiring to
look over your work?

True, with 3d printers I’m still learning. Its a whole new game and I’ve
yet to find a good rulebook. Everybody has a favorite axe to grind.

I’d really hate to hear that you hurt yourself or caused a fire.

Sometimes I’m convinced I’m shockproof. 3 times now ready kilowatt has
tried
to cook me, failed every time, but the burns are years healing cuz I’m also
diabetic, type II. Being active, anything I touch outside the working skin
on my hands,is bruise that is a couple months going away.
Take care & stay well Mike.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.

how many variations of a 6 pin motor socket are there? with a nearly
identical set of motors from a tronxy-400-pro in it, tmc is reporting a
shorted A winding in the logs. TwoTrees OEM cable.

Personally, on Nema 17’s, I’ve seen at least two different wirings for a six pin socket. There are also four and five pin sockets and then there are motors that don’t have sockets and have wire bundles running out of them (and in that case there can be four to six wires (and maybe more for case ground) of varying colors).

image

image

image

So, if the driver is reporting a shorted winding, chances are have a connection between a center tap and coil connection or maybe case ground with the resistance/inductance being measured by the chip is less than the chip’s expectation threshold.

image

You can generally count on 20mm or 42mm long NEMA 17 motors from established 3D printer companies as having the “standard” 6 pin stepper connection that will work with the “standard” cables. They should also have datasheets for the motors and pinouts so you can understand what you’re getting. Personally, I don’t trust anything on Amazon at all right now - it’s the Wild West there and I’ve seen too many people get burned by unscrupulous people with a variety of products and Amazon really doesn’t want to go after the vendors that sell on their site.

This is why I’m saying go back and get your printer(s) working with traditional NEMA 17s, running at 24V from known vendors. Lots of parts you can trust and lots of people who can answer your questions.

The only award you can win for the most electricity going through your body is the Darwin.

I’m thinking missmatched cables, so I’d bought some 5 packs of 4 pin on one end, 6 pin on the other, 2 meters long, and just subbed 2 of those for the OEM cables.
Essentially same error.
klippy.log (85.2 KB)
lkilppy.og attatched.
Thanks Mike

These tronxy motors seem to have the same pinouts as creality motor of the same size although these two motors are 42mm cores, not 40’s. The bottoms clear the bed support crossmember by one or 2 red ones. So I can’t put longer motors in if I wanted to.

Take care & stay well Mike.
Cheers, Gene.

See https://www.oyostepper.com/article-1098-Tips-on-Wiring-a-step-motor-to-a-driver.html
Use a multimeter and search for the “full-step” wires, i.e. the pair with the highest resistance. Just skip the rest. Best to check the respective stepper’s datasheet, also for determining the run_current
Attention: The datasheet value typically is NOT the run_current

These are not bipolar motors with a center-tap in each winding. I don’t think I’ve got even 1 of those 6 wire motors. Only 4 wires are actually used because that is all these motors has, two coils even if it has a 6 pin plug. Please look at the klippy.log and translate that into the most likely scenario as cause.

The same 40mm core, 4 loose wire motors, laying on the table, wired same color to same color, run just fine on board #2 of the 3 V3.1 boards I have, not tested on the 2nd Marlin equipt V3.1 board… STEPPER_BUZZ will not do anything because it moves toward home and the firmware thinks its homed but claims it must be homed first, STEPPER_BUZZ is buggy because it won’t show you anything until its homed first. Its initial move s/b away from home so it still works regardless of homed state. There was a time on the V3.1 board with Marlin-2.1.3 in it, where I could move it away from home with octoprint and it would move, at a 45 degree angle because the other motor wasn’t taking orders.

From the original V1.2 board, till now, I’ve changed 1 board of V1.2 flavor for two others of V3.1 flavor, and swapped the V3.1 boards twice now. Wearing out both the allen screws and me. Not to mention the wear and tear on the connectors. All I did to start this wash,rinse, repeat forever cycle was re-solder a wire broken off the X home switch about 6 weeks back. With a $250+ soldering station that has been checked for proper tip grounding several times since. It also has hot air for surface mount work. Which I also have done a bit of. That klippy.log was made after the first V3.1 was reinstalled a 3 hours ago., and that is the board still in it.

Take care and stay well, both of you.
Cheers, Gene.

Gene, one thing you should have learned in all this discussion:

  • I do not need any blabla about about how many motors or soldering stations you have, nor how long the motors are
  • Provide concise and accurate information and nothing else

In this case provide the exact motor type as per its type placard and how you have wired it. A picture / schematic says more than 1000 words

The most likely cause for this is no rocket science:

  • Defect stepper
  • Wrong / faulty wiring

@Sineos & @gene1934 Don’t you guys sleep?

Gene,

Can I suggest that you a) just focus on one set of parts (ideally as standard as possible) and b) set up a spreadsheet to record the changes you’ve made and provide an easy to follow history of what is happening and what has been done. Something like:

We’re not getting paid to help, we’re doing it out of the goodness of our hearts, please appreciate that and make things as easy as possible for us.

you wanted pix, heres 4:




the new 2m cable, plugged into the Tronxy motor shows a 3.9 ohm coil from 1-4,
and another like coil from 2-3 on the 4 pin plug end that plugs into the nano_v3.1 board.

Is that the expected load for TCM-2209’s plugged in?

The DVM is fused but the fuse was a .315 amp where the artwork says .500 and was also 20 yeas old, reading a random value from 10 to 140ish, replaced with a new .500 and brillo padded the probes to get a short down to 2.7 ohms, at which time the coils were 3.9 to 4.0 ohms.

Few techs understand that old, small current fuses, will make the DVM lie like a rug reading ohms thru them.
I don’t have any spare motors exactly like the two trees SP-5 use, creality and other failed lesser known brands are my parts warehouse. I also have a good supply of 2M542 drivers I can go up to 50 volts with and 1.0 to 4.2 amps with, at any power of 2 divisor. They have just worked for 2 decades.

As for the question about sleep, at 88 and 3 wives, I’m not alone, and the schedule isn’t fixed.

To Myke, that is not what I measure, either tronxy or the cables are wrong. err wait, the coils are A & B on the artwork, and 1 and 2 are the ends of a given coil, in which case the cables are correct. plus,+, not 1, and minus,-, not 2, would have been a lot less ambiguous. #@$%^& Chinglish artwork.

To Sineos, a spreadsheet might be handy, but in 75 years of chasing electrons for a living my only experience is with dynacalc, to do taxes, but HRBlock has saved me more. I’d have to learn another new program from scratch.

Now what do we do? Order motors from 2 trees? I’d druther buy another voron trident for $1100, I’d get something that worked quicker if I got the complete kit…

Printerboard

image

You will typically find this 2A 2B 1B 1A or B1 B2 A1 A2 on the printerboard. The meaning of marking is not uniform but I dare say:

  • The first character typically is the coil / phase numbering (Very important, since mixing the coils usually destroys the stepper)
  • The second character is the polarity (less important, since it can be reversed in the software)

This means:

  • Pin 1 and pin 2 are a coil
  • Pin 3 and pin 4 are a coil

Stepper motor - How to identify a coil pair

Apart from the data sheet, the easiest and most secure way to identify a coil is:

  1. Spin the spindle between your fingers, remember how it feels
  2. Short two of the wires
  3. Spin again: If it feels harder / more bumpy now, you have found a pair

With a voltmeter:

  • Between a pair you should have some Ohms resistance
  • Between a non-pair you should have infinite resistance, i.e. no continuity

Usongshine 17HS4401S

Information taken from: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32829022738.html

This means your new 2m cable should match just nicely.

Side note:
Rated current (= max current) of this stepper is given with 1.5A →
run_current = 1.5 x 0,707 x 0,8 = 0.85A
Klipper uses RMS current as run_current

42SHDC4080Z-23B

No information found. Refer to “Stepper motor - How to identify a coil pair” and verify against your cable.

I really do not want to be rude: What we are discussing here are very much basics. Unless you have a bit of experience in this, the Vorons are not exactly what I’d recommend starting with.

That ordering it not what my ohmeter says. I find a coil from 1-4 as one coil, and from 2-3 for the other. This at the end of the cable that plugs into the driver socket on the edge of the board. Where can I get an ejector tool that will not damage these plugs swapping pins around?

@Sineos replied with a lot of information that I was going to.

Don’t start rewiring cables that you’ve bought.

Let’s figure out exactly where you are and, to do that, we need to setup a clear process for all parties.

When I introduced the concept of the spreadsheet, it was to get a process going so that a) we can see where you are at a glance and b) there are single steps that we can work through to resolve your issues.

A spreadsheet, in its most basic form, is a table of entries where you can put data in an organized fashion. I have no idea where things are right now and it’s a lot of work to go back through multiple long posts trying to figure out where things are.

So, can I ask that you go through something like this introduction:

I would say, work through to “Formulas – Adding, Subtracting, Multiplying and Dividing” skipping the sections from “Importing Data Into a Spreadsheet” through" File…Import". That just covers starting a new (Google) spreadsheet, putting in data with some basic formatting and should take less than ten minutes or so to go through and maybe fifteen or twenty minutes to make up a spreadsheet, like in my previous post, with your current data.

From there, we can suggest next steps and explain why we’re making those suggestions with what we expect to see change as a result.